Can we talk?

Two students defy today’s volatile political environment

By Demi Budd and Osei Helper | Manor Ink

The new year kicked off with something no American could have expected: a storming of the United States Capitol by radical supporters of Donald Trump.

In mob-like fashion, these supporters vandalized and looted the building, and they did so during the certification of the 2020 presidential election, putting a stop to the process for several hours. It was a violent method of spreading their erroneous message: that the election was rigged, and the winner was President Trump.

This election has certainly left the country divided, as has Trump’s presidency as a whole. We are the United States, but its people are anything but.

But the youth of today who will soon become millions of voters are educating themselves politically and beginning to choose sides. Their opinions have been formed, or are currently (re)forming as events such as those on Jan. 6 in Washington, DC, unfold.

The divide seen in the voters in the election is apparent in these future voters as well. To dig more into this gap and how young people might find common ground, Manor Ink reached out to Livingston Manor high schoolers.

The paper proposed that students with different political opinions sit down and discuss the issues to see if there were places where they could find common ground. The process of contacting and getting students on board was difficult, and it took quite a while. But LMCS sophomores Sienna Dutcher and Mackenzie Carlson offered to talk to each other about their opposing views.

As per the restrictions imposed by the coronavirus, the Ink took this political roundtable to Zoom. Both students were read a list of ground rules and were expected to treat each other with respect, and that is exactly what they did. The exchange between the two offered an understanding of the other’s ideas, a middle ground between them, and suggestions for future reconciliation.

About the participants

Mackenzie Carlson
LMCS, Grade 10
Favorite subjects: math, English
Extracurriculars: basketball, softball, Interact Club
Community service: Renaissance flower-planting
Future: Plans to go to a Division 1 school, play softball, graduate with a degree in criminal justice and become a state trooper

Sienna Dutcher
LMCS, Grade 10
Favorite subjects: band, English
Extracurriculars: Student Council
Community service: Renaissance planting flowers in town and a town trash pick up
Future: Plans to go to NYU and get a PhD in plastic surgery

The dialogue

How would you define your political views?

Dutcher: I would like to start with how the two-party system is flawed. We are offered a choice between two lesser evils. I believe the two-party system divides the country and blocks good discussions and debates. That being said, I identify with the term liberal/left-leaning, because there are many ideas I agree with on that side.

Carlson: I consider myself a conservative.

Who or what influenced your political views?

Dutcher: Growing up in the LGBTQ-plus community and as a woman have definitely influenced my political opinions. It caused me to look into how some politicians were advocating and passing policies against my and others’ well-being.

Carlson: Definitely my dad and his own family influenced my political opinions. They’re all big Republicans, and I grew up surrounded by that.

What are your thoughts on the Black Lives Matter movement?

Dutcher: I am a firm supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement. Our justice system is deeply rooted in white supremacy, and that needs to change. Due to the racist values that started this country, racism can be found in every part of our government and society. That’s why people are marching in the streets and rioting. After years and years of protesting to no avail, I feel like all of us would be angry enough to burn down a building.

The riots were an act of desperation and grief that I believe we need to respect. The CEO of Target has more than enough money to replace a Target. But the lives of the black people killed by a racist justice system can never be replaced. Over the course of American history, rioting has been one of the only things that does work. The Stonewall Riots were a very important event in gaining gay rights, and even the founding of America as an independent nation started by rioting.

Carlson: I think that all lives matter, but if someone were to say that “white lives matter,” they would definitely be considered racist. So I don’t think that you should put one specific racial group in front of it all. And I think that peaceful protesting is fine; I don’t think looting and rioting should be acceptable, no matter what the cause is.

Dutcher: Like she said, if a white person says white lives matter, it would be seen as racist. But the reason that the phrase “Black Lives Matter” is so important is because black lives are not valued by the government. As seen in Breonna Taylor’s case, she was shot in her own home while sleeping. The police who shot her were only charged for the bullets that hit the wall of her neighbor’s house. The justice system only cares about the wall.

Carlson: But I think that there is always another side of the story that the media doesn’t say. In the George Floyd case, the man was a criminal. He already had charges pressed against him, so it wasn’t like these officers just did this out of nowhere.

Dutcher: I don’t feel that warrants him being killed. I just don’t think the brutality he faced for an invalid check holds up to what a white man would have gone through. If a white man did that, he wouldn’t even have the police called on him. Even if he had past criminal changes, he wouldn’t have been killed.

What are your thoughts on the Capitol riots?

Carlson: I don’t think what happened at the Capitol building was right. Like I said before, I don’t think rioting and looting should happen, regardless of the case. But I think that Democrats are okay with it until the other side does it, then it’s a huge deal.

Dutcher: I don’t think that the causes for looting and rioting should be compared to the causes for what happened at the Capitol.

Carlson: If Trump got re-elected, and people were rioting against that at the Capitol Building – the reverse situation – then everyone would be fine with it.

Dutcher: I don’t believe the outcome would have been the same. The two demographics on each side have such different positions in society. If the roles were switched, a lot of different things would have happened.

What happened at the Capitol was egregious. The hypocrisy shown that day would be laughable had it not been such an awful tragedy. The same people who raided the Capitol, who believe that Blue Lives Matter, just bludgeoned a cop with a fire extinguisher. It goes to show that, for the people who infiltrated the Capitol, the Blue Lives Matter movement was just a way to silence the Black Lives Matter movement.

Carlson: I don’t agree with that. Blue Lives Matter was a movement for people to stand up for cops. Nowadays, everyone presumes all cops are bad because a few cops did awful things. But I really don’t think all cops are bad.

Dutcher: I don’t believe that the cops themselves are bad people. The ACAB [All Cops are Bastards] movement was more of a way to show that the system is flawed. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a “blue” life; it’s their job that they choose. Being a black person in America isn’t something that you can just choose.

How do you feel about President Trump’s impeachment?

Dutcher: I’m very glad that Trump was impeached. Over his four years as president, he only stood for straight, rich, white men. I don’t want to live in an America where I have to constantly demand that people who don’t fit into these categories be valued. He’s a dangerous man capable of mongering a lot of hate.

Carlson: I do agree some of the things he says are not the best, but I think he’s done a lot of good for America. My parent’s stock market and economy was great. I don’t think it’s necessarily smart to impeach him when he only has a few days left in office, anyway. They want to impeach him so he can’t run in 2024, right? If you’re so positive that he lost this election, then what’s the big deal? Isn’t he just going to lose the next one, too?

Dutcher: I don’t believe so. He has a lot of very supportive followers. As for your parents, I’m glad that they’re making a lot of money, but your family is a white family and white families benefit by having President Trump in office. Sure he did a lot of good things for white privileged families, including my own, but not for me individually.

What ideas do you have for how Americans could agree to disagree without treating each other like enemies?

Dutcher: As we’ve done in this discussion. I feel that it’s very important to listen to each other and to find common things that you do agree on, instead of just focusing on what you disagree on. Not everyone’s going to be persuaded by what you say.

Carlson: Just respect others’ opinions and listen to them instead of hating someone right off the bat because they think differently.

Dialogue on the national level

Though it seems like it, it’s not all calumny and conflict in Washington, DC. There are some members of Congress who are looking for ways to work with their counterparts across the aisle in an effort to move the nation forward.

Beginning in 2017, a number of representatives from across the country formed an independent group called the Problem Solvers Caucus. Equally divided between Democrats and Republicans, the caucus seeks common ground on many key issues, including health care, prison reform, immigration and infrastructure. Co-Chaired by Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ) and Rep. Tom Reed (R-NY), the group’s philosophy is summed up sussinctly on its website: “Only when we work together as Americans can we successfully break through the gridlock of today’s politics.” To learn more, visit problemsolverscaucus-gottheimer.house.gov.